Trial use Java re LSB application cerfication?

Submitted by LSB List on Tue, 10/07/2008 - 04:15.

Printer-friendly versionPosted to the lsb-discuss mailing list by: Kay Tate

I am a little unclear what effect a Java trial use standard has on LSB application certification. Can Java apps get LSB Certified with trial use standards? Or do we wait to recruit Java apps until Java is fully included? Best regards, Kay A. Tate Chiphopper Program Manager ibm.com/isv/go/chiphopper

Trial use Java re LSB application cerfication?
Submitted by LSB List on Tue, 10/07/2008 - 14:00.

Posted to the lsb-discuss mailing list by: Kay Tate

>Kay Tate wrote:
>> I am a little unclear what effect a Java trial use standard has on LSB
>> application certification. Can Java apps get LSB Certified with trial
>> use standards? Or do we wait to recruit Java apps until Java is fully
>> included?

>Mats Wichmann answered:
>I can't see how we can certify Java apps when we can't figure out
>how to certify the runtimes they'll be deployed on - that being
>the major reason why it's Trial Use. I don't think we really
>know what the application check scenario will look like, either.

Makes sense to me. I just didn't want to lose recruiting opportunity.

Do we have a section about what "trial use" means to LSB application
certification? I looked for it on the web site and didn't see anything
about it. Certainly addressing testing in the distros is a first
priority. However, it might be useful to be clear somewhere that apps
can't use "trial use" module compliance in their LSB application
certification process. In the java case, they still have to
ship the JRE.

On the testing front for Java, I have a question for Joe K. It was
reported to us a couple of years ago that there was a tool that
checked whether a Java program conformed to the spec. Does this ring
any bells? Do you think this is the kind of thing we would need to
test LSB complaince for Java programs, or is it more rigorous than
is required? Is there another alternative?

Trial use Java re LSB application certification?
Submitted by LSB List on Tue, 10/07/2008 - 19:15.

Posted to the lsb-discuss mailing list by: David Herron

Kay Tate wrote:

Kay Tate wrote:

I am a little unclear what effect a Java trial use standard has on LSB
application certification. Can Java apps get LSB Certified with trial
use standards? Or do we wait to recruit Java apps until Java is fully
included?

Mats Wichmann answered:
I can't see how we can certify Java apps when we can't figure out
how to certify the runtimes they'll be deployed on - that being
the major reason why it's Trial Use. I don't think we really
know what the application check scenario will look like, either.

Makes sense to me. I just didn't want to lose recruiting opportunity.

Do we have a section about what "trial use" means to LSB application
certification? I looked for it on the web site and didn't see anything
about it. Certainly addressing testing in the distros is a first
priority. However, it might be useful to be clear somewhere that apps
can't use "trial use" module compliance in their LSB application
certification process. In the java case, they still have to
ship the JRE.

On the testing front for Java, I have a question for Joe K. It was
reported to us a couple of years ago that there was a tool that
checked whether a Java program conformed to the spec. Does this ring
any bells? Do you think this is the kind of thing we would need to
test LSB complaince for Java programs, or is it more rigorous than
is required? Is there another alternative?

Joe K is no longer with us.. so...

I think what you're thinking of was the "100% Pure Java" program. I
don't remember much about how it was implemented but that was the
idea. That if an application were to use only 100% Pure Java calls and
not rely on extensions that applications would be instantly portable.
I just googled that phrase and found a bunch of naysayers though, for
whatever that's worth. I believe somewhere on java.sun.com you'll find
some old page that describes the program, but you'll have to be more
patient than me.

Oh, wait, http://java.sun.com/products/archive/100percent/4.1.1/

It's probably a closed source tool etc..

I think the general idea is - given the platform specification you have
a list of API's. It's possible to dig into the class files and look at
the API's being called by an application and detect which ones are
outside the standard API's.

- David Herron

Trial use Java re LSB application certification?
Submitted by Wichmann Mats D on Tue, 10/07/2008 - 20:15.

We do things like this with our other application
checkers (the most applicable one presumably being the c++ class usage
checking), so I'd expect something similar to appear in the LSB tools
eventually, whether or not it's based on any existing tool. APIs are
captured in the LSB database and generated out into the checkers so they have
the lists right even as things change.

Is there any more info you can give on this tool,
or is considered morbid now?

From: David.Herron@Sun.COM
[mailto:David.Herron@Sun.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:56
PM
To: Kay Tate
Cc: Wichmann, Mats D; jek3@Sun.COM;
lsb-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: [lsb-discuss]
Trial use Java re LSB application certification?

I think the general
idea is - given the platform specification you have a list of API's. It's
possible to dig into the class files and look at the API's being called by an
application and detect which ones are outside the standard API's.

- David Herron

Trial use Java re LSB application certification?
Submitted by LSB List on Tue, 10/07/2008 - 20:45.

Posted to the lsb-discuss mailing list by: David Herron

The page says it's gone through the EOL process ... so, yeah, morbid is
a good word. We might be able to dig something up but it's unlikely
and it's even possible the original people who did that app are long
gone.

Wichmann, Mats D wrote:

We do things like this with
our other application checkers (the most applicable one presumably
being the c++ class usage checking), so I'd expect something similar to
appear in the LSB tools eventually, whether or not it's based on any
existing tool. APIs are captured in the LSB database and generated out
into the checkers so they have the lists right even as things change.

Is there any more info you
can give on this tool, or is considered morbid now?

From:
David.Herron@Sun.COM [mailto:David.Herron@Sun.COM]

Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:56 PM

To: Kay Tate

Cc: Wichmann, Mats D; jek3@Sun.COM;
lsb-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org

Subject: Re: [lsb-discuss] Trial use Java re LSB application
certification?

I think the general idea is - given the platform specification you have
a list of API's. It's possible to dig into the class files and look at
the API's being called by an application and detect which ones are
outside the standard API's.

- David Herron

Trial use Java re LSB application cerfication?
Submitted by Wichmann Mats D on Tue, 10/07/2008 - 13:30.

Kay Tate wrote:
> I am a little unclear what effect a Java trial use standard has on LSB
> application certification. Can Java apps get LSB Certified with trial
> use standards? Or do we wait to recruit Java apps until Java is fully
> included?

I can't see how we can certify Java apps when we can't figure out
how to certify the runtimes they'll be deployed on - that being
the major reason why it's Trial Use. I don't think we really
know what the application check scenario will look like, either.

Trial use Java re LSB application cerfication?

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